Another proud moment in US history Omar Kahdr's Interrogation Video From Guantanamo.
Preface
This video is by no means as shocking as the images all have seen of Abu Ghraib. What is particularly interesting is the Comment section which follows the article, which is what this blog is concerned with. Please feel free to comment on the Comments.
Kahdr held in Concentration Camp for 5 years without charge. A Canadian citizen born in Toronto, he is the youngest prisoner held in extrajudicial detention by the United States and has been frequently referred to as a child soldier.
The only Western citizen remaining in Guantanamo, Khadr is unique in that Canada has refused to seek extradition or repatriation despite the urgings of Amnesty International, UNICEF, the Canadian Bar Association and other prominent organisations. Khadr is the only Guantanamo detainee who has faced a judge and who is not boycotting the military tribunals, and has spent six years in the Guantanamo Bay detention camps charged with war crimes and providing support to terrorism after allegedly throwing a grenade that killed a US soldier.
In February 2008, the Pentagon accidentally released documents that revealed that although Khadr was present during the firefight, there was no other evidence that he had thrown the grenade. In fact, military officials had originally reported that another of the surviving militants had thrown the grenade just before being killed.
Lawyers for a Canadian prisoner at Guantanamo Bay released excerpts of videotaped interrogations Tuesday, providing a first-ever glimpse into the secretive world of questioning enemy combatants at the isolated U.S. prison in Cuba. The 10 minutes of video _ selected by Omar Khadr's Canadian lawyers from more than seven hours of footage recorded by a camera hidden in a vent _ shows a 16-year-old Khadr weeping, his face buried in his hands, during the 2003 interrogation that took place over four days.
The video, created by U.S. government agents and originally marked as secret, provides insight into the effects of prolonged interrogation and detention on the Guantanamo prisoner. A Canadian Security Intelligence Services agent in the video grills Khadr about events leading up to his capture as an enemy combatant when he was 15. Khadr, a Canadian citizen, is accused of throwing a grenade that killed a U.S. soldier during a 2002 firefight in Afghanistan. He was arrested after he was found in the rubble of a bombed-out compound _ badly wounded and near death.
At one point in the interrogation, Khadr pulls off his orange prisoner shirt and shows the wounds he sustained in the firefight. He complains he can't move his arms and says he had requested, but hadn't received, proper medical attention. "They look like they're healing well to me," the agent says of the injuries. "No, I'm not. You're not here (at Guantanamo)," Khadr says. The agent later accuses Khadr of using his injuries and emotional state to avoid the interrogation.
"No, you don't care about me," Khadr says. Khadr also tells his interrogator that he was tortured while at the U.S. military detention center at the Bagram air base in Afghanistan, where he was first detained after his arrest in 2002.
Later on in the tape, a distraught Khadr is seen rocking, his face in his hands. "Help me," he sobs repeatedly in despair. On the final day, the agent tells Khadr that he was "very disappointed" in how Khadr had behaved, and tries to impress upon him that he should cooperate. Khadr says he wants to go back to Canada.
"There's not anything I can do about that," the agent says. The video is believed to be the first footage shown of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service in action during its 24-year history, offering an unprecedented glimpse into its interrogation strategies. The video was made public under Canadian court orders, and released by Alberta-based lawyers Nathan Whitling and Dennis Edney a week after intelligence reports made public last week showed Khadr was abused in detention at the U.S. naval base-turned-prison on the tip of Cuba. A Department of Foreign Affairs report said Canadian official Jim Gould visited Khadr in 2004 and was told by the American military that the detainee was moved every three hours to different cells to deprive him of sleep and familiar cell mates.
The report also says Khadr was placed in isolation for up to three weeks and then interviewed again. Whitling and Edney released the video with hopes that public reaction to the footage will prompt Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper to lobby for his repatriation. "We hope that the Canadian government will finally come to recognize that the so-called legal process that has been put in place to deal with Omar Khadr's situation is grossly unfair and abusive," Whitling said. "It's not appropriate to simply allow this process to run its course.
Video can by viewed by cutting and pasting the following url in your browser.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20286.htm
Comments
The 'Conservative' (neo-con) government of Canada is determined to sacrifice and punish this young Canadian. Just listen to the contempt in the voice of the CSIS agent talking to him, representing Canada. What a bleeding shame. Siusaidh | 07.15.08 - 4:53 pm |
this is what the new world order is all about omran | 07.15.08 - 5:00 pm |
Gravatar If this is not terrorism, neither was 9/11. Al | 07.15.08 - 5:03 pm |
Most Americans and Canadians are so frightened of their own shadow that they'd want this human killed. Show this boy to a WOMAN, whether she be Russian, Japanese, German, American, British, Iraqi, Mexican, Iranian, Israeli, Nigerian or ANYTHING and she would shield this broken boy from the blows. That's what a woman is..a protecter. I bet the cowards who tortured this kid for 6 years actually laughed at his misery. picklehead | 07.15.08 - 5:03 pm |
ok. CSIS, hear my protest. not one more dime of federal income tax will i pay to support this torture. "my" government leaves me with few choices of effective civil disobedience so i'll start with the best. i hereby refuse to feed your dispicable policies. bring it on. to others who live in canada, may we all remember our "nation" is no better than the usa. we would be best served by fighting our own psychopathic elected officials and their policy enforcers before we crap on the usa "sheeple". our own compliance with torture and illegal and immoral wars demands all our attention. evelyn burch | 07.15.08 - 5:10 pm |
He wouldn't be there if he wasn't guilty. Right? Aren't they all guilty? I'm going to have to check with Condi on this one. George Bush | 07.15.08 - 5:22 pm |
A child who is; shot, kidnapped, tortured, and this is the "freedom" that is being fought for? These perverts ought to be put on sex offenders list, and jailed, what the fuck in hades is going on in US/Canada/UK? Anonymous | 07.15.08 - 5:32 pm |
How I hate the bullies who assume the right to wreck a person's life like this. It is they who should be in jail, not a teen-aged Canadian boy. Horrible, detestable bullies. Bush, Cheney, everyone in the WH, more than 95 senators, more than 400 representatives, most of the SC should all be jailed and made to feel as bad as this poor kid. Damn them all! I extend my disapproval to all 300,000 U.S. soldiers and mercenaries or however many there are - they too are criminals who should be prosecuted. GORBALT | 07.15.08 - 5:43 pm |
ok. CSIS, hear my protest. not one more dime of federal income tax will i pay to support this torture. "my" government leaves me with few choices of effective civil disobedience so i'll start with the best. i hereby refuse to feed your dispicable policies. bring it on. evelyn burch | 07.15.08 - 5:10 pm |
You will do far better to simply reduce your income so that the taxes you owe are legitimately much less than what you must normally yield to war and torture. You can make your actions known to those whom you wish to neutralize, too, and over the mounting years and decades of continuing war and sociocide you will deprive them of far more than you would with your impulsive prescription above. Good luck. GORBALT | 07.15.08 - 5:49 pm |
GORBALT: as my children are adults, i have long ago been able to reduce income and consumption substantially. my "impulsive" response to this particular outrage is my ultimate defiance to the machine. not one dime more, not a dime, is my best protest as i am willing to face their consequences at the cost of my "comfort". i don't expect to start a movement but i will clean myself of the any willing association with their shitty compromised "mission", their "war on terror", which is nothing less than imperialistic abuse of "foreign" countries and their peoples. evelyn burch | 07.15.08 - 6:09 pm |
At first, I was afraid to click on the video.Then, gradually I learned it was a child crying. 'Don't you want to stay here?' 'There is no snow'. The interrogator doesn't have a clue. jeanX | 07.15.08 - 6:24 pm |
What about Bush,the criminal gov of usa,they are guilty,and all the zionist jews,america,canada,uk,germany,france are all control by zionist,next will be the CRISTIAN people. nic | 07.15.08 - 6:25 pm |
Listen Up, NSA<> William Dean: Kelley Sovereign | 07.15.08 - 6:25 pm |
It is very tragic. Child soldiers are simply pawns who are abused/used by adults to fight their wars. Who will speak against the use of torture? Who will speak up for the homeless, hungry, poor, and weak? Canada has lost its conscience and its ability to take the high road in world affairs. Harper and Bush are neocons who have no morality. Shame. Shame. Shame. anonymous | 07.15.08 - 6:34 pm |
i could not watch the entire thing.... THIS is what level of depravity our country has fallen to... today yet another hearing on torture this time with the pompus outraged imoral shithead douglas feith demanding all of this crap was within the legal boundries of geneva.... and there sat old man conyers taking up space gathering up yet more of the illegalities this scum administration has done.... then goes back to his office to stare dazedly a the mold growing papers of impeachment and the now dust collecting ones for the idiot.... i believe that when the war crimes tribunals begin, he [conyers] should be one of the first to be charged for aiding and abetting, allowing all of this crap to go undealt with for YEARS.... perhaps if he spent more time doing his job instead of writing books such as the constitution in crisis, which by the way lays out most of the impeachable offenses, he would actually acomplish something other than growing mold in between his dense ears or collecting dust which is settling into the cobwebs of his mind...... come on people....send him thousands of copies of this video... call his office and put fear into his warped brain..... EACH SEAT IN THE HOUSE IS UP FOR GRABS IN NOVEMBER INCLUDING CONYERS.... make him sweat, make him squirm, but demand he do his fucking job; conyers office rayburn building 202-225-5126 fax 202- 225-0072 detroit office 313-226-2085 trenton michigan office 734-675-4218 he is the major obsticle in impeachment...he alone holds the keys alan stuart | Homepage | 07.15.08 - 6:37 pm |
william dean..... bravo, well said.... alan stuart | Homepage | 07.15.08 - 6:40 pm |
Here is a link to an open letter I wrote to PM Harper: http://www.orato.com/podium/2008...omar-khadr- home john hatch | Homepage | 07.15.08 - 6:40 pm | # Gravatar he is not saying 'Help Me!' he is saying 'Kill Me!' Fuck you American savages! Zipperhead | 07.15.08 - 6:59 pm |
This is sickening! WHY have the Canadian people allowed this to continue for so long? The excuse, that it has happened because Canada currently has a "right wing" Federal Government / Prime Minister, does not absolve individual and collective Canadians from a part in this. Shame on you! When I lived in Canada, for several years, I thought you were more like New Zealanders than you were like your neighbours to the South ... (AotearoaNZ has NOT joined GW Bush's so called "war on terror" ... despite veiled threats!) PLEASE, each and every one of you, get out there and DO SOMETHING to get that poor, naive, VERY young man HOME! eredwen of Aotearoa NZ | 07.15.08 - 7:06 pm |
fuck that smug piece of shit asking the questions. Anonymous | 07.15.08 - 7:06 pm |
Child soldiers are simply pawns who are abused/used by adults to fight their wars. anonymous | 07.15.08 - 6:34 pm |
On what basis do you assert this child was a soldier? After the initial attacks on Afghanistan, the bounty for any "Taliban" was $2500, and for any "foreign Taliban" ranging from $5000, to $25000. This kid most probably was picked up and sold as a "Foreign Taliban". The whole affair stinks, and so far the story has not been given the coverage to clarify the facts, which ave resulted in myths, being peddled as facts. this boy was shot at point blank, in the chest, and post the live autopsy in Bagram, he was sent to Gitmo. Those perverts in the lieu of covering their crimes by finding scapegoats, and parading these poor unfortunate bastards in the usual "two minutes hate" sessions to keep the proletariat in check. This child was not a soldier, we are told he was fighting, but where, how, and when are all Jessica Lynched yet again. In fifty years time the truth will be known, fat lot of good that is going to do the poor bastards whom were mangled while the hysteria was reigning supreme. The war criminals have perverted the law itself, and there seems no end to the nightmare. There are no fucking railway lines to Gitmo, so there is no holocaust then. Anonymous | 07.15.08 - 7:07 pm |
Zipperhead | 07.15.08 - 6:59 pm | #, You are right. The .. What is there to say? ... animals, savages........ Cannot type for tears. Anonymous | 07.15.08 - 7:09 pm |
If I were an American, I would leave. If you are an American visiting or living here (Australia) - and support Bush. You are not welcome - F off. You'll spend your vacation in intensive care. I have no doubt that I speak for over a hundred nations. No Mercy | 07.15.08 - 7:24 pm |
"he is not saying 'Help Me!' he is saying 'Kill Me!' Fuck you American savages!" - Zipperhead. Hey Zed. While I couldn't agree more with you on the "Fuck you" and "savages" remarks, you may well want to remember that in this instance, American savages were ably abetted by some of our very own home-grown Canadian savages. CSIS and the RCMP hold an equal amount of guilt when it comes to what Khader is suffering today. But hell, it is a small price to pay to allow Harper to play in the 'bigs'. Canada earned her nationhood in the horrors of the first world war. Cemented it in the second. And lost it through the offices of Mulrooney, Martin and now Harper. They sold our nation and us, down the Mississippi river. The True North Strong and Free? Hardly. 'True' no longer these days; 'Strong' only because we have abjured our national responsibility in favour of the protective arms of the USSA; And 'Free'? You decide. rgl | 07.15.08 - 7:30 pm |
In spite of the poor choice of words used above, I have to agree with Anonymous 7:06pm. Was this clip made public because the terrorist interrorgators thought it seemed benign? There is nothing benign about an arrogant thug smugly asking questions of a beaten, tortured, maimed, an oppressed young man. Wielding weapons against defenseless civilians does not make the interrogator superior to the victim. On the contrary, the victim is the courageous hero. The interrogator is cowardly vermin. Anonymous | 07.15.08 - 7:32 pm |
"He wouldn't be there if he wasn't guilty. Right? Aren't they all guilty? I'm going to have to check with Condi on this one." - George Bush. May fate grant me one wish: to meet George Bu$h in a dark alley one day. rgl | 07.15.08 - 7:32 pm |
Omar haveing a picnic when you compare him to somali child called Shidane Arone,when canadian soldiers took him to their Barracks early in the evening and started a party and then began to tourtue him and kill him little by little in a very painful way. Any of you Ladies and Gentleman remember? A-T | 07.15.08 - 7:33 pm |
"Any of you Ladies and Gentleman remember?" - A-T Yes. I remember. I also remember that Pte Brown served five whole years for this. MCpl Matchee is still managing to avoid prosecution due to mental infirmary. Yes, I remember that we too, have our 'savages'. rgl | 07.15.08 - 7:37 pm |
Sadly, Canada is supposed to fall for the msm spin around this abysmal situation. torture is wrong--BUT, I noticed that Khadr stated he could not move his arms--but later in the video he was raising them over his head etc. If this man(he is not a child--he was 15 at the time of his alleged murder of a medic) is Canadian why was he over in Afghanistan? He was there for no good. He was there with his father and brother. As a Canadian I don't want this man back in Canada. If you are Canadian, Canada is your country, not the one you or your parents left to come here. Remember Air India? Well, over 300 people were blown out of the air by a bomb on board. Why? Because the idiots that we let into our country carried on their war against their 'homeland', and they blew up the plane to make a point. Either you are Canadian or you are not. I for one do not want to be a country of convenience for killers--no matter their age. We have too many killers walking the streets already. We have thousands of missing refugees and immigrants who were ordered deported but they ran. Why import another one--even if he says he is Canadian(he was born here) he obviously would rather fight for his 'homeland, not Canada. We ar enot a haven for this behaviour. We don't want him back. I am amazed how many of you have fallen for the propaganda of the msm and the Liberals. Remember, the Liberals did not hep Bill Sampson when he was tortured and sentenced to death in Saudi Arabia--and he was innocent! It took the Brits to free him. George | 07.15.08 - 7:39 pm |
George ... You are a fool. And a dangerous one at that. Did you miss the part where it was mentioned that there is NO EVIDENCE that Khader threw the grenade for which he is now paying the price of lost youth, and a mental trauma that may or may not ever heal. You were there then, to see this (then) child do the things he is accused of doing? You can state categorically that Khader went to Afghanistan to kill Americans? Seems even his accusers are changing their story. You have the same sense of twisted justice that exists south of the border. Why bother with truth when we can just hang him and be done with it? What if someone were to say you should have YOUR citizenship revoked for being an idiot? Your answer would be ... ? You are every bit as xenophobic, moronic, and utterly brain-dead as the authors of this mess. And btw, you do NOT speak for me. So shut the fuck up with that 'we' crap. I want this man HOME. And I hope he successfully sues the American AND Canadian governments for all he can get. It still would not make up for the things he endured. rgl | 07.15.08 - 7:53 pm |
How many of the commentators on this site are willing to take up arms to neutralize the fucking Zionists and right-wing bastards in the USA, Canada, Britain, France, Germany and Israel ? Writing is nothing but an exercise in futility. The only language these bastards understand is force - force directed against them and their loved ones. The Zionists and right-wing bastards should be eliminated from the face of this Earth. moshe dyan | 07.15.08 - 7:56 pm |
The tragedy of this story is that this young man, because of his parent's association with a violent and barbaric religion, never had a chance to live a normal life. He is obviously broken and beyond repair, and while his situation is horrific and cruel it is a consequence of the murderous ideals he was brainwashed by. That his father is dead and will have no other children to throw into the empty pit of religion is something we all ought to be thankful for. Omar himself would probably be better off dead at this point; he'll always be a danger to himself and everyone around him. It's heart-wrenchingly sad to see him suffer, but it is time we started looking at situations like this and ask ourselves, "Why is this happening?" Is it because Americans are harsh and cruel? Is it because Muslims are all barking-mad terrorists? NO. It is because religion preys upon the weak and the malleable among us, and gives rise to the worst aspects of our human nature, and turns young men like Omar into warriors for a non-existent god, willing to take life, and to offer his own, in praise of a lie. Jon | 07.15.08 - 7:58 pm |
Jon: Have you ever read the Quran? It is abundantly clear from your drivel that you have never read the Quran, visited a Muslim country, nor associated with Muslims. Islam is a religion of peace. It's the fastest growing religion in the USA, and there are more Muslims in the world than Jews and Christians combined. Despite your warped ideas about Islam, Islam teaches tolerance and respect for all peoples and faiths. You are a nitwit. moshe dyan | 07.15.08 - 8:09 pm |
All Blood money changers and war mongers along with polititions that sell their country out and harm their people as well as the people in other countrys they attack and occupy all of them should be hunted like the rodents they are and shot on sight. Somday soon the people of the world will have had enough and then let the turkey shoot begin. another old US vet | 07.15.08 - 8:13 pm |
Question: Where is "home". I seem to have lost it. My home was so beautiful - good people - nice cops who gave a damn how the neighborhood kids were -Boy Scouts. Girl Scouts, CAP, Church on Sundays if you were Christian and how interesting you were were you not. Dogs playing in the sandlots while their masters played baseball or were down on their knees playing marbles. The big guys tinkering with their hotrods, girls with curlers in their hair trying on new nail polish. Open air concerts, the Salvation Army band, the VFW parade, the Feast of St. Anthony, jitterbugging, the lindy...yes, even the Mafia with their handouts to poor kids on the fourth of July and other Saints holidays. What black hole swallowed up all of this which made us proud to be American and proud to be living here? You tell me, my goombas, where did the happy and free go? It sure aint here now. We are slaves. Marion | 07.15.08 - 8:13 pm |
WOW Marion you just said exactly what I feel and miss when growing up in coney island Brooklyn... another old US vet | 07.15.08 - 8:15 pm | # Gravatar "How many of the commentators on this site are willing to take up arms to neutralize the fucking Zionists and right-wing bastards in the USA, Canada, Britain, France, Germany and Israel ?" - moshe dyan. Moshe, I spent almost 12 years of my adult life as a bullet-dispenser (soldier, Canadian Army). From Europe to the Middle East, from the North Pole to damned near the South I have been, and may I impart to you the one single lesson I learned over that entire period? You can't solve anything with violence. The only way we as a species are going to survive on any level greater than that of a cockroach is through education. It is impossible to beat, kick, torture, or shoot the bigotry, racism, and hate out of anybody. Including the zio-religious-fuckwits. The only time I will use a weapon on anybody, is to prevent harm befalling my kids (or me, for that matter). The root problem here is not that these rightwing nutcases exist, but that far too many people do not believe that they exist. I disagree entirely with your premise that "Writing is nothing but an exercise in futility". Just look at how much (harm) is accomplished through the one book most published and read the world over ... the bible. No, my friend, only when we learn that everybody's blood is the same colour will we be able to look at each other as equals. None inferior, or superior to others. Put down your weapon. Pick up your pen, or keyboard, and tell people what you know. If you speak the truth, people WILL listen. And learn. rgl | 07.15.08 - 8:21 pm |
Moshe--have you ever read the Talmud??? If you think the Koran is deadly, try reading that some time. I wrote that Khadr should not be returned to Canada. His actions are the direct result of the collusion of the West with israel. But he is destroyed and he must be kept away from citizens no matter where he is kept. I do not care for the US/Israel/Canada actions but we have to be realistic. If he is brought back to Canada he will be loosed against the population. That is what we do in Canada. Criminals have rights here, victims and the innocent do not. When does one become responsible for their own actios? PM Chretien was instrumental in having Khadr's father released from prison in, I think, Egypt, and we see the end results. The father was killed in Afghanistan and the sons were imprisoned. Sad, but it is done, and the innocent of Canada should not have to pay for this. Actually, his loud-mouthed mother should be locked up too. She is as vicious as the father was. George | 07.15.08 - 8:22 pm | # Gravatar This poor dumb boy. If his parents only had the sense to stay home. Good people stay home you know. Indiana John | 07.15.08 - 8:25 pm |
To another old US Vet; Try Port Chester, New York Marion (a US old vet's wife). Marion | 07.15.08 - 8:32 pm |
Hi Marions husband... WW2 japan occuoation and Korea... YOU? another old US vet | 07.15.08 - 8:39 pm |
@ Mary; Not slaves. Slaves have feelings for one another. More like Flesh and blood robots bred to believe anything is OK if your your boss says so and your paid a wage to carry out orders. From mass destruction, bloody genocide to maiming innocents and imprisonment of children and otherwise harmless people. For any real justice, the tables need to be turned on those guilty of such inhuman activity. Particularly the Capitalists who sponser such or officials who refuse to act appropriately. Such as Canada's complicit scum. Go to; http://www.worldsocialism.org for a real world solution. . Bill Johnson | Homepage | 07.15.08 - 8:40 pm |
This boy has been held since he was 16 years ago. From what we know, he was not involved in any act of violence. And even if he was one who resisted our violence and cruelty, he should be treated as a boy soldier. As a growing body of Americans are realizing, we Americans are making the Nazis look like boy scouts. Our business community is funding and sponsoring murder and robbery throughout the world. Like General Smedley Butler said in 1934, we are gangsters. Every American is guilty of these crimes against the nations of the world. As we sit quietly in our homes, watching a sitcom or reality television, 500,000 Iraqi children died. Economic hit men are working around the world to enslave whole nations. The World Bank is knowingly involved in economic crimes, The CIA is undermining true democracy worldwide. Assassins (jackals) on order from our greedy corporate community orchestrates the murders of those foreign leaders who refuse to cooperate with them. We are the scourge of the earth. james sherman | 07.15.08 - 8:41 pm |
"Islam is a religion of peace. It's the fastest growing religion in the USA, and there are more Muslims in the world than Jews and Christians combined. Despite your warped ideas about Islam, Islam teaches tolerance and respect for all peoples and faiths. You are a nitwit." - moshe dyan. It matters not that we are talking about Islam, Christianity, Judaism (spelling?). Jon's point is, I think, the damage caused when a large portion of the world ascribe to the fairy-tale that is religion. Regardless of how tolerant or eloquent a particular religion may, or may not be. It is still a fairy tale. All religion, with the possible exception of Buddism, is about control. And in the case of Xianity, wealth amassment. There are some, I repeat some, good ideas in these writings, but regardless of how good peter pan makes you feel, is this cartoon character deserving of worship?? Well, neither are the rest of these made-up, pretend people. Whose god is real? Islam will say Mohammed, (ok, a Prophet), for the xtians it is the holy trinity. A fictional arrangement, btw, instigated by the Roman Emperor Justinian through the five councils of Nicea. Only one can be right. Right? So. Who is right? Can you sing 'My god is better than your god, my god is better than yours ... my god is better ... ... because I said so, said the priest. rgl | 07.15.08 - 8:44 pm |
"...the innocent of Canada should not have to pay for this." Absolutely right. And as I mentioned before, it is becoming clearer and clearer that Khader IS INNOCENT!! Can you get that through the brick you call a head?? Yet you would punish him further. If we are going to arbitrarily revoke citizenship here, my vote is to revoke yours. You'd make an ideal yank. rgl | 07.15.08 - 8:49 pm |
i am sixty-five years old and a first generation american. my father came to the united states as a little baby in 1903. my grandfather and great grandfather deserted the russian army in 1903 during the russo-japanese war. they packed up the entire family and moved to america. they came to this country for the same three reasons that most other immigrants did. they were opposed to war, religious persecution and low economic opportunites. the most prosperous decade of the twentieth century was the first. there was no federal income tax, no centralized banking system, no war against drugs, and almost anyone who emmigrated here was allowed to enter. the united states averaged a seven percent growth rate, one percent inflation rate and two percent unemployment rate per annum during the decade. during the second decade the united states government entered into the first world war, started the income and created the federal reserve banking system. in the third decade the united states and most of the rest of the world was plunged into an economic depression. it seems to me that purpose for creating this country was being thrown out. throughout history the united states was the only nation that had a successful revolution that was based on the principle of liberty. our forefathers sacrificed their fortunes in order to finance this grand experiment. they created a place where people could live peacably without force as long as they did not advocate force or violence against others, in order to obtain their goals. somewhere and somehow the principle of individual liberty has been tossed out in favor of democratically elected thuggery. i believe that what has happened to this man is deplorable. it is absurd. i believe that the crux of the problem is that the government is ruled by elitist who's undertones give the image of compassion, but in reality these meglamaniacs want to dominate and control people. real change will come about when individuals take responsibilty for their own actions. it will take a long-term effort in order to combat the brainwashing that the elitist have used in order to control the masses. i am a long-term optomist. these types of heinous deeds will eventually end. expecting the politicians to do the right thing is like asking a wild hungry wolf to guard the hen house. we can all envision the consequences of that scenario. teach a man to fish and you can help him to alleviate his hunger. teach a man to be responsible for himself and he will succeed beyond his wildest dreams. wars, slavery, taxes and government controls always lead to disaster. whether a person is elected, appointed or annointed will always end in the same type of situation we are in now. most of us have heard that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. if we truly want to spread peace and prosperity, then we have to start living it ourselves. gary marcus | 07.15.08 - 8:52 pm |
@ rgl | 07.15.08 - 8:21 pm I fully concur with your position on violence. The working-class can bring the world to order by refusing to act against their own class interests to bring about a money-less production for USE economy to democratically satisfy the needs of all humanity. Not the class divided society and conflicts Capitalism generates at present as in the past. . Bill Johnson | Homepage | 07.15.08 - 8:57 pm |
@ james sherman ... "You'd make an ideal yank." - me. James, I owe you a wee apology. In a previous post I suggested that an idiot move to the states because he would "...make an ideal yank". I should have inserted the word rabid, because I realize that not all Americans are ... anti-civilization. My slur was, and is, intended for those yanks who still believe in, would vote for, and adore Bu$h. Still far too many of those ... rgl | 07.15.08 - 8:59 pm |
rgl: "...It is impossible to beat, kick, torture, or shoot the bigotry, racism, and hate out of anybody..." Your non-violent approach to conflict resolution is understandable and admirable, but mass murderers are not dissuaded by love and respect. In light of the fact that the war in Iraq was instigated and promoted by about 10 rabid Zionists at AIPAC and The American Enterprise Institute, neutralization of those mass murderers would have averted the war against Iraq and saved the lives of over 1 million innocent Iraqis. Suffice it to say, the same mass murderers are attempting to inflict the same horrific fate on Iran. moshe dyan | 07.15.08 - 9:01 pm |
Who committed these crimes against this boy? I suspect that "Americans" and Israelis did. Canadians! Don't turn into chickenshits like we did. Demand the safe and immediate return of your countryman. Michael Emmons | 07.15.08 - 9:10 pm |
"In light of the fact that the war in Iraq was instigated and promoted by about 10 rabid Zionists at AIPAC and The American Enterprise Institute, neutralization of those mass murderers would have averted the war against Iraq and saved the lives of over 1 million innocent Iraqis." - Moshe Dyan. I would counter you with the statement that 'if more people were aware of the evil that is possible in any government, indeed were aware of the evils that have already been committed in their name, perhaps enough people would have been motivated to stand up then, and say enough is enough.' My point is that if the knowledge base was big enough at the time, perhaps the environment for the US/Israeli/whoever attack on the towers may never have come off. The only entity that should be authorized to use deadly force should be the (completely revamped) United Nations. Moshe, I do not for a minute believe that there will never be 'demons to slay' to use an Adamism. But unilaterism can only result in the deadly messes we presently have in Iraq and Afghanistan. No nation should be permitted to make unilateral war. rgl | 07.15.08 - 9:13 pm |
Moshe .. addendum to my last "No nation should be permitted to make unilateral war." That goes for the individual as well. rgl | 07.15.08 - 9:16 pm |
rgl: God is one and mankind is a single nation. Our diversity is a manifestation of the greatness of the creator. We must neutralize the handful of mass murderers among us, for the greater good of humanity. moshe dyan | 07.15.08 - 9:20 pm |
"...it seems to me that purpose for creating this country was being thrown out. throughout history the united states was the only nation that had a successful revolution that was based on the principle of liberty." - gary marcus. Gary, first off, I think those Frenchmen what stormed the Bastille just may have a problem with your assertation that the US was the only successful revolution in history. Second, as a First Nations/Indigenous/Native, or whatever the politically correct term-du-jour is, I have a problem with your assertation that you had a revolution 'based on the principle of liberty'. Never mind that that 'liberty' came at the cost of the eradication of approximately 10 million of my forebears. Can ethnic-cleansing and liberty be used in the same sentence? I think not. It always cracks me up to hear a revisionist state the Europeans discovered America. We already knew it was here. You simply had to ask. rgl | 07.15.08 - 9:25 pm |
Moshe ... I will not take part in a conversation about fairy tales. They serve no purpose. rgl | 07.15.08 - 9:28 pm |
Not all Americans support what our government has done. George Bush is not normal - he is a greedy and heartless thing - not an animal because they don't do things like this. What really scares me is that there are so many people that feel like he does. I'm ashamed of what we have let our government do for oil and religion. Who would Jesus torture? Chris | 07.15.08 - 9:37 pm |
"...mankind is a single nation." - Moshe Dyan This, however, I have no problem agreeing with. rgl | 07.15.08 - 9:40 pm |
I saw this vid a few hours ago and my anger and disgust still haven't abated. Yes I too remember Shidane Arone. I remember the atrocities committed by Canadians, Italians, and Belgians. I remember the corpses and the trophy parts Canadians collected. I never could forget the photograph of the two smiling Belgian soldiers holding a young girl over an open fire. I remember the measures adopted by the Gvt of Canada in the wake of these events: http://www.pch.gc.ca/progs/pdp-h...cs/cat/ fd_e.cfm How hollow they seem! What meaningless Canadian bacon bullshit! Oh, and lest I forget. What's your commitment to these worth Canada and fellow Canadians? http://www.pch.gc.ca/progs/pdp-h...ait/ human_e.cfm Disgusting! T. Anonymous | 07.15.08 - 9:48 pm |
The above was mine. T. Turtle | 07.15.08 - 9:50 pm |
USA, Canada, Nazi Germany, what is the difference? None that I know of... Ompapa | Homepage | 07.15.08 - 9:54 pm |
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